Game Start 10/9
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Game Start 10/9
by TLS Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:08 pm
I know, it breaks my heart too, but we've had a lot of rule changes being debated, and in order for us to not rush the debates on the finer points I'm going to move the game start back one week to the week of October 8th. Please go to Vas' thread (or go to this post in particular) to see the suggested changes and weigh in. Once we've cut the rules down a bit, I will probably have to reevaluate resource allocation. I'd rather we get this all on the table now and get buy in from y'all to ensure smoother continuity moving forward.
In addition, I am going to put the kibosh on the Great Northern War being in motion as soon as we start. If the Swedes and Russians want to go to war as soon as we start, that's their right, but I'd rather not railroad people when we're trying to figure things out all over again.
In addition, I am going to put the kibosh on the Great Northern War being in motion as soon as we start. If the Swedes and Russians want to go to war as soon as we start, that's their right, but I'd rather not railroad people when we're trying to figure things out all over again.
Last edited by TLS on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Game Start 10/9
by TLS Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:26 pm
After perhaps an (over) exhaustive review of the rules, with a week in which everyone had to make inputs, below are all the rule changes that have been made or will be made (barring potential minor tweeks in the wording for clarification) for the start of the game. Obviously this is always a WIP, and after a few years we usually figure out whether things are unbalanced and adjust, but these are the rules we will be using at game start. I have already adjusted the regions of the world post to reflect the changed value/types of economic units and the conversion of slave centers to normal resources--I reduced them, so there are only a few slave import centers worth any $, I slightly cut the number of slave export centers but increased the # of trade posts, etc. Click here for the most accurate accounting of your resources.
Additionally, for game start, I want both a pre-build and a 1701 build up by Monday, Oct 9. The Pre-build is what you have standing, the 1701 build represents everything you'll be building over the first day. This is how we did it in years past, and I think that it's not too much to ask. If you want an example country page to look at, might I suggest an example from Gunpowder Empire? Obviously you all have your own preferences for style, but the same sort of information should be captured.
------------------
To reduce clutter I just completely removed units which are removed, rather than marking them "removed". If a rule or stat isn't mentioned in this list, assume it is unchanged--I included all units below, but not every minute detail of repairing, income, combat rules etc that are unchanged.
Changed Rules
Manpower
Your nation is limited to 3% of its population under active-duty arms, and 7% under reserve. Active duty includes all ships, as well as all infantry, cavalry, and fortresses. Included in reserves are: Militia, garrisons, supply and building facilities.
There is a special rule for trading companies--their ships draw 50% of their manpower from the home country, 50% from elsewhere. This represents the high percentage of third country sailors on these company vessels historically.
Ground Units
Mobile Units
Infantry battalion- 1,000 men, combat 1, move 3, cost 1, maintenance .1
Cavalry regiment – 1,000 men, combat 1, move 4, cost 2, maintenance .25
Militia battalion - 1,000 men, generally only good for combat against natives or other militia battalions, in which case combat value is 1. Against non-militia targets is essentially just cannon-fodder barring technology, leadership, or terrain bonuses. move 2, cost .5, maintenance .05
Infantry brigade- consists of 4 battalions armed with flintlock muskets, plus 4 batteries of field artillery (so roughly 16-24 cannons). Manpower 2,500. Combat 4, Movement 1, Cost 4 maintenance .5
Cavalry brigade- Horses kill people. Manpower 2,500.
cost 4, maintenance 1, combat 3, movement 3
Militia Infantry Brigade- but generally performs poorly if forced to fight in line of battle. Adequate for occupying ground, patrolling and fighting Native Militia and Light Infantry. Can operate in wilderness areas without attrition penalty. Manpower 2,500. Cost 1, maintenance .10, combat 1, movement 2. Militia brigades cannot leave their home region or homeland at any time.
Militia Cavalry Brigade - Same operational restrictions as militia infantry. Manpower 2,500. cost 2, maintenance .25, combat 1 (halved if fighting anyone other than militia or natives), movement 3.
Preexisting militia can be upgraded to their regular equivalent if the difference in cost is covered, this process takes 1 season beyond the season they are raised to complete.
Engineer Brigade - a brigade sized unit equipped with sappers for siege work, bridging equipment, boats and other equipment. Allows field armies to cross rivers without penalty and attack across them with the penalty reduced by 50%. Only one per nation, if destroyed takes 10 years to rebuild. Manpower 2,500. Cost 5, maintenance 3, combat 0, movement 1, allows all Infantry and Light Infantry units in a field army to treat forts and fortresses as field units after 2 seasons.
Variants
Native light infantry and cavalry are free to raise, but cannot remain mobilized for more than one season each year. They suffers penalties if forced to fight against Infantry, Light Infantry and any cavalry or dragoon unit in a pitched battle.
Colonial units- Specify if a unit consists of locals or imported soldiers. Colonial units need to be based off of the white population of the colony, though this can be broadened to include the mixed population if justified by game actions. This will influence decisions in battle, morale, etc, at moderator discretion. For trading companies, recruiting additional sepoys above the directly administered population is like recruiting mercenaries--make an ask of the moderator.
Fortifications
Garrison brigade- actually consists of small garrisons and weak forts to establish control over an area. If attacked by field forces, becomes a weak combat unit with a combat rating of 1, movement of 2 Manpower 2,500. cost 3, maintenance .25
Fortified Cities- all OLD WORLD cities are fortified.
Fortress- in addition to being more powerful forts, these bastions also act as supply bases for armies, mobilization centers and depots. Treated as an infantry brigade for cost and maintenance cost, but cannot move, and if captured are permanently eliminated and have to be rebuilt. Also acts as a supply source for field armies that can trace a supply line by road or waterway to them. cost 4, maintenance .5, acts as a depot, can be built alongside or inside a fortified city (making it really strongly fortified)Although treated as a brigade, a fortress only has a garrison of 1,000 men, and can hold up to 3 other brigades as well (which are doubled defending it). If a fortress is abandoned, its defenders can constitute an infantry battalion, not brigade.The trained battalion can be switched out for a militia brigade (not militia battalion) if necessary--representing that more untrained militia are needed to take the place of trained defenders.
Building times:
Infantry, Cavalry require 2 seasons to build and train (treat as militia until then)
Fortresses require 2 years to build and equip
Militia can be used the same season they are raised and equipped
Logistical Units
Depots - cost 2 point to build, free to maintain. These never move, and represent the recruiting grounds, barracks and and training grounds for several regiments of troops so can train up to 1 brigade at a time. Countries are limited to one per 500,000, with a minimum of one allowed for countries below that threshold--this includes colonies with populations above 35,000 (the minimum population to support 1 infantry battalion).
Base- this is the administrative center of a field army and where supplies are gathered to be sent to the army, as well as were communications from home are received and transmitted further on to the field commander. A base must be a city or fortress within reasonable distance (as defined by common sense and the referee) but typically is within 300 miles of the army it is supporting. You will want to leave a garrison behind to guard your base. It costs 2 point to establish a base unless it is a fortress (those have already been paid for and are designed for this purpose)
Naval Units
Combat Ships:
Naming Not Required: If you guys think it's too much of a hassle to have to name all your ships, I don't care. Don't do it. Do it if you want to.
Heavy BatRon - consist of 1 - 1st rate and 2 - 2nd rate ships and between them these 3 ships carry more and heavier artillery than most field armies. Construction time is very lengthy, at 10 years, but these ships can last centuries if properly maintained. Cost 15, maintenance 1.5, Naval combat rating 7, range 5, speed 1, 2,500 men
BatRon – consist of 2 - 3rd rate and 2- 4th rate ships. Construction is lengthy, at 6 years, but these ships can last decades if properly maintained. Cost 9, maintenance .75, Naval combat rating 5, range 6, speed 2 2,500 men
CruRon- consist of 1 - 5th rate and 3 - 6th rate frigates. Construction is lengthy, at 4 years, but these ships too can last decades, and heavy 5th rate frigates can last centuries as well. Fast, and heavily armed, but lack the durability of the heavier ships of the line. Cost 4.5, maintenance .5, naval combat rating 3, range 8, speed 3 2,500 men
PatRon- consist of 12 Sloops and Brigs. Construction is relatively fast, at 2 years, and these ships can be readily converted from merchant ships during wartime as well. They are also ideal pirate vessels, as they are manueverable, and can operate in shallow water as well. These ships are not particularly durable, a couple of decades is the usual working life. Cost 2, maintenance .25, naval combat rating 1, range 8, speed 3 2,500 men
Commerce Vessels
Commercial flotilla – 50 ships the size of frigates, sloops and brigs. All merchant ships of this era are armed and their crews trained to fight but not as effectively as naval crews and morale is generally far weaker than trained naval personnel as well. Build time is 2 years, cost is 3, maintenance is free but it costs .25 points to use a merchant flotilla as a transport which takes them out of merchant service for that game year. Commercial flotillas provide .25 income when not mobilized. A merchant flotilla can carry 2 light infantry or 1 other type of brigade. Combat rating 1 (defense only), range 5, speed 1.
Converting commercial shipping into warships is not advisable. The referee will give you specifics on that should you desire, but it is not advisable as any conversion is subject to a +1 to hit by purpose built warships, and is not as fast or maneuverable usually as a purpose built warship of the same size. They are built for endurance and cargo space, not durability and handling. They also can carry only light guns, as their gun decks are not built up enough to handle heavier ordinance.
Nations cannot have more than 3 Commercial Flotillas per port. Entrepots can support up to 10 additional commercial flotillas
Naval Facilities
cannot be moved once constructed, and can be destroyed by combat action.
Ports - any port can repair any size ships, but can only build PatRons and commercial shipping. No maintenance cost is required.
Naval Yards – large facilities that can build any size ship or repair any size ship. They have a work force of 10,000 military and civilian employees, and also serve as centers of administration. Naval yards must be built in a port. It takes 10 years to build a naval yard, which must first start as a naval station (so 12 years total). Cost is 25 points. maintenance .5
Naval Factories – very large facilities that can build any size ship or repair any size ship in half the time of a naval yard. These huge facilities must be built in a port, and require 50 years to build. It takes 150 points to build a Naval Factory. As of game start, the only cities with the naval acumen to build them are London and Rotterdam. These facilities employ 50,000 civilian and military workers. Maintenance 3
Shipbuilding and Repair
A port can repair any 10 maintenance points of naval or merchant unit, and can build 2 points of shipping at a time.
Laying up ships
This was common practice, but limited to CruRons and BatRons, as the lighter ships simply rot away to quickly to make it worth while and are cheap to build.
Ships laid up have 10% maintenance cost. To activate costs double maintenance for that year, plus another 50% for every 10 years they are laid up. Maximum length a ship can be laid up is 20 years for CruRons, 50 years for BatRons and Heavy BatRons.
It takes 1 season to make them operational, 2 seasons if laid up more than 10 years, and 1 year if laid up longer than that. This includes repairs and crewing them.
This counts as new construction for purposes of naval yards and naval factories (so limits apply, there are only so many slips available.
Economic Rules
Income
Slaving income is no longer contingent upon establishing loops. It's just a single resource. I will re-allocate.
Financial centers-- Any country can take out up to 5 points in loans per year, up to 15 points total. A country with a financial center in it can take 10 points per year, up to 30. Interest rates will be decided by credit. The FC generates 1 point per year regardless, to signify taxation on private loans.
Wartime taxation will no longer come with a set % chance of uprisings, mod will take into account non-quantifiable factors when deciding when the population has had too much.
Commerce is now only one type of unit, worth .5, but you can build 3 per port.
Supply Rules
On further thought, I actually don't think the supply rules necessarily need streamlining. They look complicated, but they really only become a hassle once your units are out of supply--but that is 1) primarily a problem for me having to do more calculations and 2) I will warn you when that's about to happen. IIRC in the last game we only had a few instances where armies were running about out of supply--it's fairly difficult to do so unless you're trying something crazy like a Napoleon into Russia fiasco.
Special Rules
Not worth the hassle in removing them now that they've been allocated, and I want to keep transparency as to why if Spain and the Savoyards are both trying to convince an NPC to fight one another, why the NPC picks one over the other even if given essentially the same rule.
Additionally, for game start, I want both a pre-build and a 1701 build up by Monday, Oct 9. The Pre-build is what you have standing, the 1701 build represents everything you'll be building over the first day. This is how we did it in years past, and I think that it's not too much to ask. If you want an example country page to look at, might I suggest an example from Gunpowder Empire? Obviously you all have your own preferences for style, but the same sort of information should be captured.
------------------
To reduce clutter I just completely removed units which are removed, rather than marking them "removed". If a rule or stat isn't mentioned in this list, assume it is unchanged--I included all units below, but not every minute detail of repairing, income, combat rules etc that are unchanged.
Changed Rules
Manpower
Your nation is limited to 3% of its population under active-duty arms, and 7% under reserve. Active duty includes all ships, as well as all infantry, cavalry, and fortresses. Included in reserves are: Militia, garrisons, supply and building facilities.
There is a special rule for trading companies--their ships draw 50% of their manpower from the home country, 50% from elsewhere. This represents the high percentage of third country sailors on these company vessels historically.
Ground Units
Mobile Units
Infantry battalion- 1,000 men, combat 1, move 3, cost 1, maintenance .1
Cavalry regiment – 1,000 men, combat 1, move 4, cost 2, maintenance .25
Militia battalion - 1,000 men, generally only good for combat against natives or other militia battalions, in which case combat value is 1. Against non-militia targets is essentially just cannon-fodder barring technology, leadership, or terrain bonuses. move 2, cost .5, maintenance .05
Infantry brigade- consists of 4 battalions armed with flintlock muskets, plus 4 batteries of field artillery (so roughly 16-24 cannons). Manpower 2,500. Combat 4, Movement 1, Cost 4 maintenance .5
Cavalry brigade- Horses kill people. Manpower 2,500.
cost 4, maintenance 1, combat 3, movement 3
Militia Infantry Brigade- but generally performs poorly if forced to fight in line of battle. Adequate for occupying ground, patrolling and fighting Native Militia and Light Infantry. Can operate in wilderness areas without attrition penalty. Manpower 2,500. Cost 1, maintenance .10, combat 1, movement 2. Militia brigades cannot leave their home region or homeland at any time.
Militia Cavalry Brigade - Same operational restrictions as militia infantry. Manpower 2,500. cost 2, maintenance .25, combat 1 (halved if fighting anyone other than militia or natives), movement 3.
Preexisting militia can be upgraded to their regular equivalent if the difference in cost is covered, this process takes 1 season beyond the season they are raised to complete.
Engineer Brigade - a brigade sized unit equipped with sappers for siege work, bridging equipment, boats and other equipment. Allows field armies to cross rivers without penalty and attack across them with the penalty reduced by 50%. Only one per nation, if destroyed takes 10 years to rebuild. Manpower 2,500. Cost 5, maintenance 3, combat 0, movement 1, allows all Infantry and Light Infantry units in a field army to treat forts and fortresses as field units after 2 seasons.
Variants
Native light infantry and cavalry are free to raise, but cannot remain mobilized for more than one season each year. They suffers penalties if forced to fight against Infantry, Light Infantry and any cavalry or dragoon unit in a pitched battle.
Colonial units- Specify if a unit consists of locals or imported soldiers. Colonial units need to be based off of the white population of the colony, though this can be broadened to include the mixed population if justified by game actions. This will influence decisions in battle, morale, etc, at moderator discretion. For trading companies, recruiting additional sepoys above the directly administered population is like recruiting mercenaries--make an ask of the moderator.
Fortifications
Garrison brigade- actually consists of small garrisons and weak forts to establish control over an area. If attacked by field forces, becomes a weak combat unit with a combat rating of 1, movement of 2 Manpower 2,500. cost 3, maintenance .25
Fortified Cities- all OLD WORLD cities are fortified.
Fortress- in addition to being more powerful forts, these bastions also act as supply bases for armies, mobilization centers and depots. Treated as an infantry brigade for cost and maintenance cost, but cannot move, and if captured are permanently eliminated and have to be rebuilt. Also acts as a supply source for field armies that can trace a supply line by road or waterway to them. cost 4, maintenance .5, acts as a depot, can be built alongside or inside a fortified city (making it really strongly fortified)Although treated as a brigade, a fortress only has a garrison of 1,000 men, and can hold up to 3 other brigades as well (which are doubled defending it). If a fortress is abandoned, its defenders can constitute an infantry battalion, not brigade.The trained battalion can be switched out for a militia brigade (not militia battalion) if necessary--representing that more untrained militia are needed to take the place of trained defenders.
Building times:
Infantry, Cavalry require 2 seasons to build and train (treat as militia until then)
Fortresses require 2 years to build and equip
Militia can be used the same season they are raised and equipped
Logistical Units
Depots - cost 2 point to build, free to maintain. These never move, and represent the recruiting grounds, barracks and and training grounds for several regiments of troops so can train up to 1 brigade at a time. Countries are limited to one per 500,000, with a minimum of one allowed for countries below that threshold--this includes colonies with populations above 35,000 (the minimum population to support 1 infantry battalion).
Base- this is the administrative center of a field army and where supplies are gathered to be sent to the army, as well as were communications from home are received and transmitted further on to the field commander. A base must be a city or fortress within reasonable distance (as defined by common sense and the referee) but typically is within 300 miles of the army it is supporting. You will want to leave a garrison behind to guard your base. It costs 2 point to establish a base unless it is a fortress (those have already been paid for and are designed for this purpose)
Naval Units
Combat Ships:
Naming Not Required: If you guys think it's too much of a hassle to have to name all your ships, I don't care. Don't do it. Do it if you want to.
Heavy BatRon - consist of 1 - 1st rate and 2 - 2nd rate ships and between them these 3 ships carry more and heavier artillery than most field armies. Construction time is very lengthy, at 10 years, but these ships can last centuries if properly maintained. Cost 15, maintenance 1.5, Naval combat rating 7, range 5, speed 1, 2,500 men
BatRon – consist of 2 - 3rd rate and 2- 4th rate ships. Construction is lengthy, at 6 years, but these ships can last decades if properly maintained. Cost 9, maintenance .75, Naval combat rating 5, range 6, speed 2 2,500 men
CruRon- consist of 1 - 5th rate and 3 - 6th rate frigates. Construction is lengthy, at 4 years, but these ships too can last decades, and heavy 5th rate frigates can last centuries as well. Fast, and heavily armed, but lack the durability of the heavier ships of the line. Cost 4.5, maintenance .5, naval combat rating 3, range 8, speed 3 2,500 men
PatRon- consist of 12 Sloops and Brigs. Construction is relatively fast, at 2 years, and these ships can be readily converted from merchant ships during wartime as well. They are also ideal pirate vessels, as they are manueverable, and can operate in shallow water as well. These ships are not particularly durable, a couple of decades is the usual working life. Cost 2, maintenance .25, naval combat rating 1, range 8, speed 3 2,500 men
Commerce Vessels
Commercial flotilla – 50 ships the size of frigates, sloops and brigs. All merchant ships of this era are armed and their crews trained to fight but not as effectively as naval crews and morale is generally far weaker than trained naval personnel as well. Build time is 2 years, cost is 3, maintenance is free but it costs .25 points to use a merchant flotilla as a transport which takes them out of merchant service for that game year. Commercial flotillas provide .25 income when not mobilized. A merchant flotilla can carry 2 light infantry or 1 other type of brigade. Combat rating 1 (defense only), range 5, speed 1.
Converting commercial shipping into warships is not advisable. The referee will give you specifics on that should you desire, but it is not advisable as any conversion is subject to a +1 to hit by purpose built warships, and is not as fast or maneuverable usually as a purpose built warship of the same size. They are built for endurance and cargo space, not durability and handling. They also can carry only light guns, as their gun decks are not built up enough to handle heavier ordinance.
Nations cannot have more than 3 Commercial Flotillas per port. Entrepots can support up to 10 additional commercial flotillas
Naval Facilities
cannot be moved once constructed, and can be destroyed by combat action.
Ports - any port can repair any size ships, but can only build PatRons and commercial shipping. No maintenance cost is required.
Naval Yards – large facilities that can build any size ship or repair any size ship. They have a work force of 10,000 military and civilian employees, and also serve as centers of administration. Naval yards must be built in a port. It takes 10 years to build a naval yard, which must first start as a naval station (so 12 years total). Cost is 25 points. maintenance .5
Naval Factories – very large facilities that can build any size ship or repair any size ship in half the time of a naval yard. These huge facilities must be built in a port, and require 50 years to build. It takes 150 points to build a Naval Factory. As of game start, the only cities with the naval acumen to build them are London and Rotterdam. These facilities employ 50,000 civilian and military workers. Maintenance 3
Shipbuilding and Repair
A port can repair any 10 maintenance points of naval or merchant unit, and can build 2 points of shipping at a time.
Laying up ships
This was common practice, but limited to CruRons and BatRons, as the lighter ships simply rot away to quickly to make it worth while and are cheap to build.
Ships laid up have 10% maintenance cost. To activate costs double maintenance for that year, plus another 50% for every 10 years they are laid up. Maximum length a ship can be laid up is 20 years for CruRons, 50 years for BatRons and Heavy BatRons.
It takes 1 season to make them operational, 2 seasons if laid up more than 10 years, and 1 year if laid up longer than that. This includes repairs and crewing them.
This counts as new construction for purposes of naval yards and naval factories (so limits apply, there are only so many slips available.
Economic Rules
Income
Slaving income is no longer contingent upon establishing loops. It's just a single resource. I will re-allocate.
Financial centers-- Any country can take out up to 5 points in loans per year, up to 15 points total. A country with a financial center in it can take 10 points per year, up to 30. Interest rates will be decided by credit. The FC generates 1 point per year regardless, to signify taxation on private loans.
Wartime taxation will no longer come with a set % chance of uprisings, mod will take into account non-quantifiable factors when deciding when the population has had too much.
Commerce is now only one type of unit, worth .5, but you can build 3 per port.
Supply Rules
On further thought, I actually don't think the supply rules necessarily need streamlining. They look complicated, but they really only become a hassle once your units are out of supply--but that is 1) primarily a problem for me having to do more calculations and 2) I will warn you when that's about to happen. IIRC in the last game we only had a few instances where armies were running about out of supply--it's fairly difficult to do so unless you're trying something crazy like a Napoleon into Russia fiasco.
Special Rules
Not worth the hassle in removing them now that they've been allocated, and I want to keep transparency as to why if Spain and the Savoyards are both trying to convince an NPC to fight one another, why the NPC picks one over the other even if given essentially the same rule.
TLS- Admin
- Posts : 731
Join date : 2017-09-19 -
Re: Game Start 10/9
by TLS Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:47 pm
We're starting!
Hey kiddos. What a great time to be alive. We're doing this! Events won't start kicking off till Monday, but I now give you all permission to start sending me orders and such for game start. Be sure to have your Pre-Build and 1701 build up by Monday, unless you have extenuating circumstances--basically Hussam and Kilani just got thrown their major powers and could need more time, but otherwise y'all have had your assignments for about 2 weeks.
Each game turn is one week in real life and represents one year. During especially eventful years a game turn will be two or even three weeks. Typically this is during major wars.
Players will submit orders and conduct annual builds on Saturday – Sunday of each week, with the turn to begin on Mondays and generally the year is completed on Fridays. Wars will be handled as seasonal phases, with Winter at the start of the week and Fall at the end of the week (or game turn if its a big war).
Hey kiddos. What a great time to be alive. We're doing this! Events won't start kicking off till Monday, but I now give you all permission to start sending me orders and such for game start. Be sure to have your Pre-Build and 1701 build up by Monday, unless you have extenuating circumstances--basically Hussam and Kilani just got thrown their major powers and could need more time, but otherwise y'all have had your assignments for about 2 weeks.
Each game turn is one week in real life and represents one year. During especially eventful years a game turn will be two or even three weeks. Typically this is during major wars.
Players will submit orders and conduct annual builds on Saturday – Sunday of each week, with the turn to begin on Mondays and generally the year is completed on Fridays. Wars will be handled as seasonal phases, with Winter at the start of the week and Fall at the end of the week (or game turn if its a big war).
TLS- Admin
- Posts : 731
Join date : 2017-09-19 -
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