Re: Le Havre Conference 1702

[Galveston Bay]

Szczuka takes his turn to propose a solution to the Swedish Issue:

“In order to solve the crisis, we should look at the factors that each party is concerned about. The Holstein Party obviously wants their candidate to be King. This would be a boon for them and their prestige. The Palatinate Faction wants more rights for their nobility, to prevent futile wars sending their sons to die on foreign battlefields. The Coalition wants an end to the Swedish dominium maris baltici. Denmark and England want safety and access to Swedish markets. We believe these desires can all be met through comprise.

“First, we propose that Sweden adopt a new constitution, granting greater rights to its nobility. Poland offers to send advisors on best methods that increase the liberty of its people.

“Second, we propose that the infant king of the Holsteiner Party be crowned. With his coronation at such a young age, he will be the first monarch to grow up in such a golden age of liberty and the legal norms will be internalized.

“Third, we propose that a union of Sweden and Denmark be legally prevented so as to remove the threat of hegemony.

“Fourth, this new unified government shall ratify the Treaty of Reval and recognize these territorial changes. The matter of Stettin and Bremen remains one that we believe is best addressed by other participants.

“With these four. factors, Poland believes we can establish a lasting peace that will satisfy all parties.”

France finds this proposal to be in clear violation of the Treaty of Westphalia and therefore expresses its strongest misgivings to this proposal.

[Lefty]

The Polish delegation encourages France to explain which parts it sees as being in violation and how that part might be remedied.

[Galveston Bay]

In the view of France, the legal precedent under Swedish law and also generally recognized in the Germanic states (who do not follow Sallic Law) is that if no male heir is of age (and Charles had none), it goes to the oldest daughter or sister, in this case Hedvig Sophia who should be crowned Queen of Sweden, with her child as her heir, and Sweden should not be vassal to Denmark. She should of course surrender her title, Duchess of Holstein Gottorp to her younger sister Ulkrika.

France rejects the Polish proposal outright as a violation of the Treaty of Westphalia and takes strong issue with any attempt to violate that treaty.

[Kilani]

After some consultation with both their Swedish counterparts and listening to the French objections, the Commonwealth delegation is forced to agree - and indeed, does so strongly. The Holsteiner party, via the right of succession and inheritance, is legally in the right under Swedish law and thus the Commonwealth backs their claim in the strongest possible terms. Unfortunately, this means that they must reject the Polish proposal, as the Palatinate party is clearly using the thirteen-year old Ulrika as a figurehead to seize power.

Therefore, they must also view the Treaty of Reval as having no binding power upon the legal government of Sweden and will continue to back their ally.

[Rodenka]

The Danish delegation agrees with the English in strong terms, viewing the Treaty of Reval as being invalid unless agreed to and ratified by the rightful Swedish monarch. Mister Rozenkrantz gets to his feet and begins packing his portfolio, noting that until this issue of succession is resolved, he cannot sit at this table and discuss further terms without consultation with His Majesty Frederick IV. With that said, he wishes all at the table a good day and exits the conference along with the rest of the Danish delegation.

[Reddawn]

Are the Holsteiners willing to end the war on the same territorial exchanges contained in the Treaty of Reval?

[Galveston Bay]

The French government declares that this conference is at an end, particularly in the light of the failure to even reach agreement on a truce, the failure of the Hapsburgs to make any effort to compromise or even agree to a truce for further discussions, and the proposed violation of the Treaty of Westphalia by the Eastern nations.

This conference is adjourned.  The delegates are issued their passports for departure.  There will be no farewell dinner or ball.

[TLS]

In an attempt to salvage the negotiations before the conference ends in complete failure over the very starting point, the Swedish factions attempt to make their voices heard. The delegation of the Swedish nobility, led by the noble diplomat Arvid Horn, notes that the kings of Sweden were historically elected, and that the period of hereditary monarchy has been an aberration in Swedish history. Regardless of who claims the throne--the elder or younger sister--the Swedish nobility are insistent upon the defense of their rights and privileges.

In the event that the Holsteiner party were willing to guarantee the restoration of the Swedish nobility's rights--the power of the Riksdag to approve/deny the raising of additional taxation and the election, or at least required approval of the nobility, on the succession of the Swedish king--the nobility would be willing to meet the aspirant royals halfway. The nobility would prefer that, in the event that their ancient privileges are restored, it would be more fitting for a fully new dynasty to reign, and thus for the young Charles Frederick to be elected sovereign (with his mother as Regent, of course) rather than the title passing to the elder sister of Charles.

---------------------

The Holsteiner party, for their part, re-emphasize the strength of their claim to the throne--though do note that the young heir may be a more amenable compromise candidate, they push for the guarantee that the throne be made inherited by the House of Holstein-Gottorp. The Riksdag would be able to retain its veto over a succession it found intolerable, but would not elect the monarch ex nihilo. The King would, however, submit to having all levies of additional taxation be up to the approval of the Riksdag.

In return, however, the Holsteiners demand no foreign influence or presence in Sweden. No Polish, or any other, court shall send "advisors" to deliberate on the shape of Sweden's entente between the crown and nobility. The Holstein party is willing to accept the de facto situation on the ground in the Baltic, but flat-out refuses to make any payments to the Polish or Russian crowns. In addition, not only will Sweden not be paying any indemnities to Poland and Russia, the Poles and Russians will jointly have to shoulder the burden for repairing the port at Stettin.

[Kilani]

The Commonwealth is also not quite willing to throw away everything, especially as they view the Swedes as their primary ally in the war and consider their opinion paramount. Once again, they reiterate their strong support for the Holsteiner faction and indicate they are willing to back them (and will continue to do so until whatever conclusion of the war).

[Galveston Bay]

In an attempt to salvage the negotiations before the conference ends in complete failure over the very starting point, the Swedish factions attempt to make their voices heard. The delegation of the Swedish nobility, led by the noble diplomat Arvid Horn, notes that the kings of Sweden were historically elected, and that the period of hereditary monarchy has been an aberration in Swedish history. Regardless of who claims the throne--the elder or younger sister--the Swedish nobility are insistent upon the defense of their rights and privileges.

In the event that the Holsteiner party were willing to guarantee the restoration of the Swedish nobility's rights--the power of the Riksdag to approve/deny the raising of additional taxation and the election, or at least required approval of the nobility, on the succession of the Swedish king--the nobility would be willing to meet the aspirant royals halfway. The nobility would prefer that, in the event that their ancient privileges are restored, it would be more fitting for a fully new dynasty to reign, and thus for the young Charles Frederick to be elected sovereign (with his mother as Regent, of course) rather than the title passing to the elder sister of Charles.

---------------------

The Holsteiner party, for their part, re-emphasize the strength of their claim to the throne--though do note that the young heir may be a more amenable compromise candidate, they push for the guarantee that the throne be made inherited by the House of Holstein-Gottorp. The Riksdag would be able to retain its veto over a succession it found intolerable, but would not elect the monarch ex nihilo. The King would, however, submit to having all levies of additional taxation be up to the approval of the Riksdag.

In return, however, the Holsteiners demand no foreign influence or presence in Sweden. No Polish, or any other, court shall send "advisors" to deliberate on the shape of Sweden's entente between the crown and nobility. The Holstein party is willing to accept the de facto situation on the ground in the Baltic, but flat-out refuses to make any payments to the Polish or Russian crowns. In addition, not only will Sweden not be paying any indemnities to Poland and Russia, the Poles and Russians will jointly have to shoulder the burden for repairing the port at Stettin.

The French government invites the Swedish parties to remain, and offers them more comfortable quarters as well as the strongest possible support that the solution be found in Sweden, not from those outside of Sweden.

French representatives also remind the Swedes that a civil war is a terrible thing, something the English, French and Germans can all attest to.

[Reddawn]

In an attempt to salvage the negotiations before the conference ends in complete failure over the very starting point, the Swedish factions attempt to make their voices heard. The delegation of the Swedish nobility, led by the noble diplomat Arvid Horn, notes that the kings of Sweden were historically elected, and that the period of hereditary monarchy has been an aberration in Swedish history. Regardless of who claims the throne--the elder or younger sister--the Swedish nobility are insistent upon the defense of their rights and privileges.

In the event that the Holsteiner party were willing to guarantee the restoration of the Swedish nobility's rights--the power of the Riksdag to approve/deny the raising of additional taxation and the election, or at least required approval of the nobility, on the succession of the Swedish king--the nobility would be willing to meet the aspirant royals halfway. The nobility would prefer that, in the event that their ancient privileges are restored, it would be more fitting for a fully new dynasty to reign, and thus for the young Charles Frederick to be elected sovereign (with his mother as Regent, of course) rather than the title passing to the elder sister of Charles.

---------------------

The Holsteiner party, for their part, re-emphasize the strength of their claim to the throne--though do note that the young heir may be a more amenable compromise candidate, they push for the guarantee that the throne be made inherited by the House of Holstein-Gottorp. The Riksdag would be able to retain its veto over a succession it found intolerable, but would not elect the monarch ex nihilo. The King would, however, submit to having all levies of additional taxation be up to the approval of the Riksdag.

In return, however, the Holsteiners demand no foreign influence or presence in Sweden. No Polish, or any other, court shall send "advisors" to deliberate on the shape of Sweden's entente between the crown and nobility. The Holstein party is willing to accept the de facto situation on the ground in the Baltic, but flat-out refuses to make any payments to the Polish or Russian crowns. In addition, not only will Sweden not be paying any indemnities to Poland and Russia, the Poles and Russians will jointly have to shoulder the burden for repairing the port at Stettin.

As Matveyev is preparing his journey back to Moscow (his appointment as French ambassador torpedoed by their sudden and premature cancellation of the conference) he receives word of the Holsteiner position. He delays his departure indefinitely, responding that Russia would be willing to accept these terms.

[Childeric]

The Habsburg delegation is preparing to leave when word reaches them of the Russian delay. The Habsburg delegation is considering whether or not to do the same, when a larger Habsburg diplomatic delegation arrives with letters relieving the original delegation for "dereliction of the Emperor's wishes."

The new Habsburg delegation indicates its interest in continued negotiation with its only interest being eventual peace. Notable absent for the delegations communications is the word preconditions.

[Galveston Bay]

The French Government, relieved by new spirit of interest for a peaceful settlement, arranges comfortable quarters in the various Royal Chateaus around Paris for the upcoming winter and arranges transportation there.

It is suggested that discussions continue over the winter, with the various partners meeting at the Chateau de la Muette, in hopes that a new locale will put aside the  unpleasantness in Le Havre

ooc
Le Havre is a mite small for an extended conference and France has most of its Royal buildings in the Paris area

[Childeric]

The Habsburg delegation makes its way to Paris, where it delights in everything the capital has to offer. The delegation seems notably unconcerned with the particulars of negotiations.

OOC: The Habsburgs don't particularly care about who rules Sweden. They are not avoiding participating obstinately, but rather because they just really don't care.

[Rodenka]

The Danish delegation rejoins the negotiations in Paris and indicates that they are in support of the Holsteiner position and will negotiate from there. If these conditions are amenable to the other negotiators, then all that needs to be done is to arrange agreement between the two Swedish factions.

[TLS]

OOC: For the sake of moving things along...

IC: After having received strong back-channel messages from their respective sponsors, the delegations of the two Swedish factions put forth the following contours of an agreement:

1) The Swedish Crown shall pass to the Charles Frederick I, son of the Duke of Holstein-Gottorp, in return for his renouncing the inheritance of the Duchy. The current Duke shall hold the Duchy until his death, at which point it shall return to the Danish crown.

2) Upon the death of each monarch, the designated successor shall only be crowned after a negotiated settlement between the monarch and the Riksdag, a pacta conventa demonstrating a contract between the nobility and the monarch.

3) In the event that the monarch dies without an heir, the Riksdag shall elect another monarch from the House of Holstein-Gottorp. If no suitable candidate exists, the Riksdag shall then be returned to its ancient prerogative of being able to freely elect a noble from inside or outside the Kingdom to rule.

4) The Swedish crown shall recognize the territorial changes of the Treaty of Reval, but will not pay restitution to the Polish and Russian crowns for a war they did not begin. However, neither shall the Russians and Poles be required to pay for the rebuilding of the port of Stettin.
4a) The Swedish crown is willing to transfer control of Swedish Pomerania to Brandenburg in return for financial compensation.

5) The Swedish territory of Bremen shall be transferred to the Kingdom of Denmark.

6) Sweden will declare itself neutral in the affairs of other Scandinavian and Baltic states for a period of no less than 20 years, and thus enter into a non-aggression pact with the nations of: Denmark, Poland, Russia, and Brandenburg.

7) The Riksdag forever banishes the notion of a union of the crowns of Sweden and Denmark, and swears to uphold the independence of Sweden from foreign domination until the last ounce of noble blood is shed.

8 ) Sweden swears to renounce any and all claims to be acting on behalf of the Protestant princes and peoples of the Empire.

[Lefty]

Szczuka, who took the time to travel with his quiet Saxon colleagues to the Saxon embassy for some German-style debauchery, hears word that his back channel negotiations proved fuitful. He announces that Poland finds the proposals acceptable and announces that Poland is willing and ready to sign an agreement. His Saxon colleagues concur.

[Reddawn]

The Russian ambassador Matveyev concurs with his Polish colleague, and is ready to accept the proposal.

[Galveston Bay]

The French government again pushes for a truce and general prisoner exchange, irrespective of developments regarding Sweden.

When asked about developments regarding Sweden, Marshal Boufflers remains non committal, stating he is waiting for instructions as the King is currently occupied with the affairs of state (not willing to admit that the King is enjoying the holiday season in his own special way).

[Childeric]

The Habsburg delegation echos the sentiments of it's Russian, Saxon, and Polish colleagues. So long as the Brandenburg delegation also agrees and the Treaty of Brussels is also recognized the Habsburgs see no reason this framework cannot conclude the current conflict.

[Kilani]

The Commonwealth finds the aolution to the Swedish question to be agreeable; however, they note they still have concerns with the Treaty of Brussels, particularly what seems to be the de facto vassalizing of Brandenburg to the Polish crown. While they recognize that the Poles are merely seeking the re acquisition of a title lost in an earlier war, the stipulation that Brandenburg be forced to levy sums of money in perpetuity for the sake of the Saxon-Polish would seem to shift the balance of power in Central Germany.

[Lefty]

Chancellor Szczuka asks his English counterparts where this concern for the balance of power was 40 years ago when Sweden sought domination of the Baltic or when Muscovy overran Poland, or the Turk sacked Vienna?

Furthermore, if Brandenburg does acquire Stettin, than it will increase its net wealth as a result.

[Kilani]

The Commonwealth delegate John Methuen coolly replies that that has very little to do with now and asks instead that requirement of tribute be struck from the treaty of Brussels. Further, he asks whether the nation of Brandenburg, ruled as it is by the Duke of Prussia, will be required to provide troops for the defense of the Polish and Saxon Kingdoms?

[Lefty]

This body, once deeply concerned with the rights of states under Westphalia, seems to change its mind quicker than a Russian season. The young Margrave’s feudal obligations will lie in supporting his liege, the King of Poland.

If this body so wishes, we could discharge with the issue altogether by ending the Duke’s overlordship of Prussia to be offset by Stettin.

[Galveston Bay]

This body, once deeply concerned with the rights of states under Westphalia, seems to change its mind quicker than a Russian season. The young Margrave’s feudal obligations will lie in supporting his liege, the King of Poland.

If this body so wishes, we could discharge with the issue altogether by ending the Duke’s overlordship of Prussia to be offset by Stettin.

France, in the person of Marshal Boufflers, asks just to be clear:

3 of the Electors are agents of the Pope (Bonn, Mainz and Trier)
Bohemia is controlled by Austria as a fief of the Hapsburgs
the Elector Palatine is related by Blood to the Stuarts of Ireland and Protestant
Saxony is controlled by Augustus (of Poland)
and now Brandenburg will be an agent of Poland?

Thus the balance will shift from 3 Protestant and 4 Catholic Electors to 5 de facto Catholic and 2 Protestant Electors?

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