British and Dutch East India Company discussions

[Galveston Bay]

1768
Representatives from the Dutch East Indies Company (VOC) approach the India House in London seeking an update on the Maratha War, and desiring to establish a line of communication to ensure both organizations can prosper and flourish without the scourge of war. Specifically, it is hoped that the two Companies may exchange information on future endeavors in the Indies so as to avoid as much tension as possible. The British welcome them and talks begin toward the end of the year

Winter 1769
As the sides meet, the British come up with their first suggestion
After consideration, the British East India company suggests the following (after discussing it with the Crown)
1. British and Dutch naval vessels will protect each others shipping from pirates, particularly in the seas around Capetown and the East Indies (Malay pirates are indeed a threat)
2. This will include rescuing each others sailors, merchants and other citizens from pirates
3. The Dutch will allow 1 merchant (with up to 4 assistants) to trade with the Japanese at their trading factory at Hirado (under the guise of being Dutch). In exchange, the Dutch will be allowed the same at an Indian port of its choosing.
4. Neither company will supply gunpowder or arms to the competitors local natives (no supporting rebels and opponents, no de facto proxy wars)
5. British return to Fort York (Sumatra) is not a hostile act, merely a return to previous status quo. However the East India Company is willing to accept a buy out offer if reasonable.
6. Neither company will allow French or Spanish warships to use their ports in peace or war except in dire emergencies due to weather or sickness and only for a few days for emergency repairs, reprovisioning and evacuation of the sick and burial of the dead.
7. The British East India Company is willing to allow all Dutch ships to use its ports if the reverse is held true by the Dutch East Indies Company

Further discussions of territorial nature are ongoing

[Galveston Bay]

The VOC representatives take the British Indiamen's proposal with interest. Issues 1, 2, 4, 5 and 7 are all acceptable, with the caveat that the VOC would like to purchase Fort York in Sumatra.

As for trade with Japan, the current rulers in Japan are rather hostile to outsiders, and careful consideration will be necessary so as to not anger them and lose all western trade with Japan. In the meantime, the VOC is open to acting as middleman should there be goods from India that the British merchants would like to sell.

While there is no desire to benefit further competitors in the region, the VOC will need to discuss the matter of French and Spanish port use with the States General, so as to not cause a diplomatic crisis. Additionally, the VOC initially propose a limitation of further expansion in the respective regions: the VOC will forgo any further expansion in the Indian Subcontinent, while the BIC will not expand in the Malaya region. We will reassess these plans within 5 years.

[Galveston Bay]

The British East India responds by dropping the request regarding Japan, at least for now. As to Malaya, as part of a trade, the British East India Company will place its trading post at Penang and expand no further. Furthermore, it is willing to sell Fort York for 6 points. The remainder of the proposal regarding Malaya and India is acceptable.

The Company understands the need for the VOC to consult with its government.

It appears that agreement is reached on much of the proposal however.

Agreement reached on following:
1. British and Dutch naval vessels will protect each others shipping from pirates, particularly in the seas around Capetown and the East Indies (Malay pirates are indeed a threat)
2. This will include rescuing each others sailors, merchants and other citizens from pirates\

3. The Dutch will allow 1 merchant (with up to 4 assistants) to trade with the Japanese at their trading factory at Hirado (under the guise of being Dutch). In exchange, the Dutch will be allowed the same at an Indian port of its choosing. (DROPPED)

4. Neither company will supply gunpowder or arms to the competitors local natives (no supporting rebels and opponents, no de facto proxy wars)
5. British return to Fort York (Sumatra) is not a hostile act, merely a return to previous status quo. However the East India Company is willing to accept a buy out offer if reasonable.

6. Neither company will allow French or Spanish warships to use their ports in peace or war except in dire emergencies due to weather or sickness and only for a few days for emergency repairs, reprovisioning and evacuation of the sick and burial of the dead. (continued discussion underway)


7. The British East India Company is willing to allow all Dutch ships to use its ports if the reverse is held true by the Dutch East Indies Company

BOLD indicates agreement reached

[Galveston Bay]

Soon after the Treaty of Brussels is signed, the Marquis of Rochford enters into negotiations with the Dutch government regarding India

[Galveston Bay]

After months of negotiations, the British and Dutch fail to reach any substantive agreement. Instead the British and Portuguese reach their own agreement instead.

[Galveston Bay]

Winter 1787
Previous secret discussions on the worst case scenario of a Prussian invasion of the Netherlands are resumed in London between the British and East India Companies.  

On the table is a suggestion of moving the Dutch company headquarters to Capetown, and the British East India Company moving its headquarters there as well.  Both would merge to form the Anglo-Dutch East Indies Company, although a suggestion is also made to call it Shell Trading Company with the symbol below.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Shell_logo.svg

This new company would be under the protection of the British Government as a much of its assets are British, as are many of its personnel, but dividends would be paid normally to existing stockholders  

None of which are Prussian.  

This would also eliminate payments to the Dutch Government.  This joint company would be responsible for paying its own troops and light naval craft, but fleet protection would be provided by the British Royal Navy

[Ottoman]

As soon as word is leaked to more pro Orange elements aka conservatives of Dutch government. It cause full blown scandal in Holland as many Dutch conservatives see this as proof that radicals are forcing the VOC to sell itself off so ,they can stay in power. The conservatives begun a political campaign to pressure the VOC to break off talks with the British...more to come later.

[Ottoman]

By Late Feb 1787

VOC representatives under heavy pressure from the Dutch Government reject the British proposal.

[TLS]

Representatives of the French East India Company (CIO), when news of these negotiations is made public, vociferously contest the legitimacy of treating without the consent of the sovereign of the Netherlands. While welcoming the news form the VOC that it has rejected the current proposal, the CIO's board and shareholders are shaken by the potential up-ending of the balance of power beyond the Cape. Any and all agreements between the French and British East India Companies, represented by their respective Crowns, would be considered null and void in the event of an illegitimate merger of the Dutch and British East India Companies.

To that end, the French East India Company further announces that it will pause its reduction in forces in India, previously agreed upon with the British government, in light of continued instability in the Orient and the risk of chaos engulfing the Far East stemming from the crisis in the Low Countries. CIO representatives make it known that, while they are not inherently opposed to negotiations as to the future of state-backed companies in the Orient, the current crisis represents a threat to the civilized balance of trade and power.

[Galveston Bay]

The British East India Company quietly suggests to the French East India Company that a three way merger, where income went to the British and French governments on an equal basis, might actually solve the problems of war interfering with commerce east of the Cape.

A Board consisting of equal parts officers from all three companies running the East India Company meeting at and headquartered at Mauritius would be potentially an ideal solution......

[Galveston Bay]

Summer 1787
The British Crown offers protection for the Dutch East India Company and Dutch West Indies Company if the following terms are accepted:

1. Reaffirmation of the Treaty of Brussels (see above)
2. Neither company will allow French or Spanish warships to use their ports in peace or war except in dire emergencies due to weather or sickness and only for a few days for emergency repairs, reprovisioning and evacuation of the sick and burial of the dead.
3. The British East India Company is willing to allow all Dutch ships to use its ports if the reverse is held true by the Dutch East Indies Company
4. Dutch East Indies Company affirms its neutrality in any war in Europe

British protection would mean that if any power attempts to seize their territory by force, the British Government would intervene with naval and military forces to protect them.

[Galveston Bay]

Late summer 1787
Pressure on the Dutch East India Company intensifies. Both it and the Republican Dutch government are warned that the freedom to act on their part is passing quickly. A deadline of November 1, 1787 is set.

Discussions in the British Parliament regarding the necessity of seizing Dutch possessions to prevent a hostile Non Protestant power from doing so are also well underway, while discussions with the Prussians regarding a de facto partition of the Netherlands between Prussia and United Kingdom, with Prussia getting a de facto client state without British compliant in exchange for the British getting an enlarged overseas empire are in the final stages

The British Government also announces that a Spanish or French seizure of Dutch possessions will not be tolerated.   Discussions with France however are underway as well.

Meanwhile the Royal Navy has largely left port.......

[Kilani]

The Spanish indicate that they likewise will not tolerate a British seizure of Dutch overseas territory and would rather see Dutch possessions go to a third party then into British hands.

[Galveston Bay]

Spain is informed that there is no circumstance that Britain will accede to Spanish threats on this matter. Indeed the British government sees no reason why the Spanish government should even have a voice in the matter. Spain has no presence in India or the northern Indian Ocean, and no presence in the southern East Indies (the Philippines being the northern East Indies in this circumstance) and only a few minor possessions in the Caribbean, long ago ceded by Spain, fall under discussion.

No vital Spanish interest is threatened, unlike Britain, which is seeing a neighbor fall into civil war and conquest by an outside power. Any discussions with other powers regarding to Dutch territory thus are outside of Spanish vital interests

Britain however sees this as a vital interest, as its route to its territories in the Indian Ocean runs by Dutch territory in southern Africa, and again by Ceylon which neighbors British holdings in India. The Dutch East Indies are near British East India holdings in Malaya, and the Dutch Virgin Islands are adjacent to the British Lesser Antilles.

British acquisition changes nothing in regards to the Spanish strategic situation, but another power, like France for example, acquiring them does threaten the British strategic situation.

While Britain would prefer to remain at peace with Spain, if Spain intervenes, then war it will be.

[Kilani]

The Spanish court's main objection is to the seizure of West Indies outposts and islands, which are close to their own holdings in the Caribbean and the South American mainland. They remain wary of the British seizing the East Indies, considering that the Philippines are relatively close by and that the eastern route via the Cape to said Philippines would also necessarily (potentially) be troubled, but are not going to fight over Ceylon or Malaya.

[Galveston Bay]

The British Government responds to the Spanish with a secret offer

[Ottoman]

September 15,1787


Given the political situation in Holland is falling apart fast, the boards of directors for West and East Indies company agree to the British terms.

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