Re: Very Important Thoughts I Wish to Share With Your Brain Meats

[Galveston Bay]

Joking aside, we should have the ability for mothball our fleets, in peacetime the major powers didn't have their fleets at full strength all the time.

most definitely agree... some of the battleships spent most of the 18th Century tied up to a dock

[Galveston Bay]

Proposed New Rules

Ground Units

Mobile Units

Expeditionary Infantry battalion- 1,000 men, combat 1, move 3, cost 1, maintenance .1
(expeditionary battalions can now do battle with brigades and not be automatically eliminated)

Expeditionary Cavalry regiment – 1,000 men, combat 1, move 4, cost 2, maintenance .25

Infantry brigade- consists of 4 battalions armed with flintlock muskets, plus 4 batteries of field artillery (so roughly 16-24 cannons).  Combat 4, Movement 1, Cost 4 maintenance .5

Light Infantry brigade- as above, but lighter artillery  Cost 2, maintenance .25, combat 2, movement 2, can operate in wilderness areas without attrition penalty

Militia Brigade- as light infantry, but generally performs poorly if forced to fight in line of battle.  Adequate for occupying ground, patrolling and fighting Native Militia and Light Infantry.  Can operate in wilderness areas without attrition penalty.  Cost 1, maintenance .10, combat 1, movement 2.  Militia brigades cannot leave their home region or homeland at any time.  

Dragoon brigade- REMOVED

Heavy Cavalry brigade- REMOVED, now only cavalry

Cavalry brigade- Horses kill people
cost 4, maintenance 1, combat 3, movement 3

Skirmisher Cavalry brigade- REMOVED

Siege Train – REMOVED

Pontoon train- REMOVED

Variants
Native light infantry and cavalry are free to raise, but cannot remain mobilized for more than one season each year.  They suffers penalties if forced to fight against Infantry, Light Infantry and any cavalry or dragoon unit in a pitched battle.  

Colonial units- REMOVED (Just specify if a unit consists of locals or imported soldiers)

Guards units- REMOVED

Fortifications
Garrison brigade- REMOVED

Fort- REMOVED (designate infantry unit to fort duty)

Fortified Cities- REMOVED -- all OLD WORLD cities are fortified.

Fortress- in addition to being more powerful forts, these bastions also act as supply bases for armies, mobilization centers and depots.  Treated as an infantry brigade for cost and maintenance cost, but cannot move, and if captured are permanently eliminated and have to be rebuilt.  Also acts as a supply source for field armies that can trace a supply line by road or waterway to them.  cost 4, maintenance .5, acts as a depot, can be built alongside or inside a fortified city (making it really strongly fortified)

Building times:
Infantry, Cavalry require 2 seasons to build and train (treat as militia until then)
Fortresses require 2 years to build and equip
Militia can be used the same season they are raised and equipped

Logistical Units
Depots - cost 2 point to build, free to maintain.  These never move, and represent  the recruiting grounds, barracks and and training grounds for several regiments of troops so can train up to 1 brigade at a time.   They can also send replacement drafts to armies in the field, and thus build replacement brigades.

Replacement brigades- REMOVED You have to raise new units if your unit has been completely destroyed.

Base- this is the administrative center of a field army and where supplies are gathered to be sent to the army, as well as were communications from home are received and transmitted further on to the field commander.   A base must be a city or fortress within reasonable distance (as defined by common sense and the referee) but typically is within 300 miles of the army it is supporting.  You will want to leave a garrison behind to guard your base.  It costs 2 point to establish a base unless it is a fortress (those have already been paid for and are designed for this purpose)

Naval Units

Combat Ships:

Naming Not Required: If you guys think it's too much of a hassle to have to name all your ships, I don't care. Don't do it. Do it if you want to.

Heavy BatRon - consist of 1 - 1st rate and 2 - 2nd rate ships and between them these 3 ships carry more and heavier artillery than most field armies. Construction time is very lengthy, at 10 years, but these ships can last centuries if properly maintained. Cost 15, maintenance 1.5, Naval combat rating 7, range 5, speed 1

BatRon – consist of 2 - 3rd rate and 2- 4th rate ships. Construction is lengthy, at 6 years, but these ships can last decades if properly maintained. Cost 9, maintenance .75, Naval combat rating 5, range 6, speed 2

CruRon- consist of 1 - 5th rate and 3 - 6th rate frigates. Construction is lengthy, at 4 years, but these ships too can last decades, and heavy 5th rate frigates can last centuries as well. Fast, and heavily armed, but lack the durability of the heavier ships of the line. Cost 4.5, maintenance .=5, naval combat rating 3, range 8, speed 3

PatRon- consist of 12 Sloops and Brigs. Construction is relatively fast, at 2 years, and these ships can be readily converted from merchant ships during wartime as well. They are also ideal pirate vessels, as they are manueverable, and can operate in shallow water as well. These ships are not particularly durable, a couple of decades is the usual working life. Cost 2, maintenance .25, naval combat rating 1, range 8, speed 3

Commerce Vessels

Flota- REMOVED

Commercial flotilla – RENAMED -- NOW ONLY ONE TYPE OF COMMERCIAL SHIPPING 50 ships the size of frigates, sloops and brigs.  All merchant ships of this era are armed and their crews trained to fight but not as effectively as naval crews and morale is generally far weaker than trained naval personnel as well.  Build time is 2 years, cost is 3, maintenance is free but it costs .25 points to use a merchant flotilla as a transport which takes them out of merchant service for that game year.  A merchant flotilla can carry 2 light infantry or 1 other type of brigade.  Combat rating 1 (defense only), range 5, speed 1.

Converting commercial shipping into warships is not advisable. The referee will give you specifics on that should you desire, but it is not advisable as any conversion is subject to a +1 to hit by purpose built warships, and is not as fast or maneuverable usually as a purpose built warship of the same size. They are built for endurance and cargo space, not durability and handling.  They also can carry only light guns, as their gun decks are not built up enough to handle heavier ordinance.  

Fishing / Coastal flotillas- REMOVED

Nations cannot have more than 2 Commercial Flotillas per port. Entrepots can support up to 10 additional commercial flotillas

Naval Facilities

cannot be moved once constructed, and can be destroyed by combat action.  

Naval anchorages-  REMOVED

Naval Stations- REMOVED - ANY PORT CAN REPAIR ANY SHIP, CAN BUILD PATRONS ONLY

Naval Yards – large facilities that can build any size ship or repair any size ship.  They have a work force of 10,000 military and civilian employees, and also serve as centers of administration.  Naval yards must be built in a port. It takes 10 years to build a naval yard, which must first start as a naval station (so 12 years total).  Cost is 25 points.  maintenance .5

Naval Factories – very large facilities that can build any size ship or repair any size ship in half the time of a naval yard.  These huge facilities must be built in a port, and require 50 years to build.  It takes 150 points to build a Naval Factory. As of game start, the only cities with the naval acumen to build them are London and Rotterdam.   These facilities employ 50,000 civilian and military workers.  Maintenance 3

Economic Rules

Income
Slaving income is no longer contingent upon establishing loops. It's just a single resource. I will re-allocate.

Financial centers-- Any country can take out up to 5 points in loans per year, up to 20 points total. A country with a financial center in it can take 10 points per year, up to 40. Interest rates will be decided by credit. The FC generates 1 point per year regardless, to signify taxation on private loans.

Wartime taxation will no longer come with a set % chance of uprisings, mod will take into account non-quantifiable factors when deciding when the population has had too much.

Commerce is now only one type of unit, worth .25

Supply Rules

I will massively simplify--I'll address how to do so in detail, but the TL;DR is that you only need to worry about the season and staying in supply for ground units, and not putting ships at sea for too long plus general ship deterioration rules. Will probably remove the sacking rules.

Special Rules

Not worth the hassle in removing them now that they've been allocated, and I want to keep transparency as to why if Spain and the Savoyards are both trying to convince an NPC to fight one another, why the NPC picks one over the other even if given essentially the same rule.

My suggestions
Keep garrison brigades, drop light infantry
the big kingdoms and empires need garrison troops in peacetime to police their populations and they need to be affordable. While the other nations have troops that sit around and parade a lot. In wartime, after one season, and spending points to upgrade them, a garrison unit can be made into a cavalry or infantry brigade. A garrison or militia brigade can also be assigned to a fortress, freeing up the troops that manned it for duty as an infantry or cavalry brigade (again after spending the points for the upgrade). Nations that have a infantry and cavalry brigades in peacetime would make their neighbors nervous, justifiably so, as they must be intending to invade someone. Thus a condition for a peace treaty could be to demand that the opponent place their troops 'in garrison"

Note that infantry and cavalry brigades cannot operate in the wilderness.

Which leads to colonial warfare
Keep infantry battalions and cavalry regiments, which are relatively small and thus would also mean small armies (historical). Instead of forts, assume all outposts, trading posts, villages etc are forts vs battalion//regiments, pirates or natives. No siege units in the wilderness either. Reduce outposts and trading posts in costs to 2 points instead of 3. Thus it remains possible to still simulate the French and Indian Wars.

Suggested national characteristics
See TLS post on Engineers, British Admirals,
Allow the Poles, Russians, whoever has the Ukraine, Turks and Arabs to field militia cavalry (cossacks and the like are a thing)
German Infantry brigades should be somewhat stronger (they really were pretty steady in a fight)
Spanish should get to have Flotas (their Treasure Fleets are a thing)
others should be possible
Gives countries a unique flavor

[Kilani]

I'm a fan of GB's suggestions.

[Kilani]

I also like bonuses for certain nations, but then you have to come up with different things for everyone. But I guess we could collectively brainstorm.

[Haneastic]

FWIW, I just did a mock-up of the pregame with the new rules. It's definitely a lot simpler, and a lot fewer line items. As a sidenote I also am not horribly over on maintenance costs, but I definitely don't have the budget for the army/navy size I could build

[Reddawn]

One note I have on e20 is that, by structure if he game with one player per country, internal conflicts are much less likely. For instance, I as Russia would have no incentive to post about Mazepa, Bulavin, or Pugachev's Cossack rebellions, because I'm trying to keep my eyes on foreign powers and be as strong as possible. And if some players try and RP more than others by introducing these rebellions, it puts them at a weakness for those that don't. It's not all rebellions, either, but political factionalism and court intrigue as well. Maybe a mod could stir these pots, but they have enough work just gaming out the current system.

I don't know how you fix this, if you do at all. Maybe having a dedicated mod for internal tensions? What do you all think? I know we're trying to simplify, and not add complexity at this point.

[Kilani]

One note I have on e20 is that, by structure if he game with one player per country, internal conflicts are much less likely. For instance, I as Russia would have no incentive to post about Mazepa, Bulavin, or Pugachev's Cossack rebellions, because I'm trying to keep my eyes on foreign powers and be as strong as possible. And if some players try and RP more than others by introducing these rebellions, it puts them at a weakness for those that don't. It's not all rebellions, either, but political factionalism and court intrigue as well. Maybe a mod could stir these pots, but they have enough work just gaming out the current system.

I don't know how you fix this, if you do at all. Maybe having a dedicated mod for internal tensions? What do you all think? I know we're trying to simplify, and not add complexity at this point.

I think that has to be a referee judgement call, honestly. We can't really add mechanics to simulate internal politics without getting hugely complicated. It's also on the players themselves to keep in mind that their governments and nations are made up of competing interest groups who may have different ideas about where the country is headed and react appropriately, instead of as an omnipotent sky god who is beaming instructions directly into their council of state's brains.

[Vas Pokhoronim]

For the record, as a heads-up, I will not be able to actually review the rules that I've demanded be changed until, like, Monday.

I may have mentioned that I have a life, by which I mean mostly a full-time job, a relationship, a very high-maintenance Cat, and casual alcoholism - but more to the point, I'm currently running a Call of Cthulhu game in meatspace, and I have a session this weekend that requires a considerable amount of preparation, since I'm not running a pre-scripted campaign and I'm making it all up on the fly.

That's something that should only be happening like once or twice a month. Usually (as we've preliminarily agreed to) the third or fourth weekend. (Worse comes to worst, I might enlist an ally to help post builds occasionally or something.)

I have been scanning this as I've been able to, and I'm optimistic, and appreciative of the accommodations. I may have further comments on Monday, but I swear they'll be constructive if they happen.

[Middle Snu]

I personally don't like country-specific rules, because they always feel like pre-determination and favoritism. The English always have the best navy, the Germans always have the best infantry, etc. Same thing with the 'historical generals are important' rule; it tends to favor the nations that were successful historically and in boring and predictable ways.

That said, in the end it doesn't matter so much.

[Kilani]

On reflection, I think I agree with Snu. We're trying to see what sort of a different world we can build. Not build a slightly different one. Leave great generals, etc, up to the mods. And nix the national rules.

[Galveston Bay]

I personally don't like country-specific rules, because they always feel like pre-determination and favoritism. The English always have the best navy, the Germans always have the best infantry, etc. Same thing with the 'historical generals are important' rule; it tends to favor the nations that were successful historically and in boring and predictable ways.

That said, in the end it doesn't matter so much.

The conditions that created those national differences did not change in the events and history leading up to the game.   There are things that nations concentrated on prior to this point.   The French developed a dedicated Corps of Engineers under Vauban, the English have 100 years of naval success (note in the prehistory they suffered disaster on land, not sea), the Cossacks and Ghazis exist because of the unique conditions of the Eastern European and Central Asian steppe, etc, the Plains Indians were superb cavalry as well, while the Germans fielded great infantry going back to the Landsknecht (to name some examples).

So why shouldn't players get some national flavor for their military forces?  This game is alternate history, but that history is coming from a vacuum.  You guys are getting simpler.  Give some ground on giving some of us what we want too.

[Ottoman]

I personally don't like country-specific rules, because they always feel like pre-determination and favoritism. The English always have the best navy, the Germans always have the best infantry, etc. Same thing with the 'historical generals are important' rule; it tends to favor the nations that were successful historically and in boring and predictable ways.

That said, in the end it doesn't matter so much.

The conditions that created those national differences did not change in the events and history leading up to the game.   There are things that nations concentrated on prior to this point.   The French developed a dedicated Corps of Engineers under Vauban, the English have 100 years of naval success (note in the prehistory they suffered disaster on land, not sea), the Cossacks and Ghazis exist because of the unique conditions of the Eastern European and Central Asian steppe, etc, the Plains Indians were superb cavalry as well, while the Germans fielded great infantry going back to the Landsknecht (to name some examples).

So why shouldn't players get some national flavor for their military forces?  This game is alternate history, but that history is coming from a vacuum.  You guys are getting simpler.  Give some ground on giving some of us what we want too.

I concur with GB, I rather not have complete generic game for the stake of making it simple. Just because for example the British are good at sea, doesn't mean they win at sea all the time or nor the Germans being good at land battles, doesn't means they would win all the time.

[Kilani]

I keep going back and forth; y'all convinced me.

[Haneastic]

I think I'm a fan of keeping historical characters as is (eg. Napoleon still is a good general, Nelson is still a good admiral, etc.) simply because it seems that historical patterns won't necessarily change a person's biology or how they were raised. We could balance it by giving the Mod's the power to add additional generals as needed (and, I would note, we have a tendency to kill off good generals faster than in RL).

In terms of individual units, I'm not sure how much we want to formalize said rules, especially since it starts to get tricky outside of the top few countries. Of course Britain is a seafaring nation, but what special bonus do we give Denmark? I could also see this leading to frustration, like people being annoyed at English bonuses tipping the scales in battle constantly.

I think it'd be simpler to keep historical characters as is, and only award roll/power bonuses in the matter of ties or to keep balance.

[TLS]

FWIW, I would rather not have the individual country bonuses (beyond special characters coming out), but that would require a larger unit list than the truncated one above. Not quite as long as as the original--I'm probably going to cut Light Infantry entirely, say--but large enough to include an "engineer" brigade (basically combined the old Siege and Pontoon units into a generic unit that is half as good as both those things), militia cavalry, etc. I don't like the historical determinism element that comes with national bonuses, but I do think it's a way to make each individual nation less complicated--instead of everyone having to worry about all these extra unit types, each country only has at most one to worry about.

Basically, it comes down to if everyone wants to shoulder the same burdens, or if we'd rather keep some of the complexity but spread it out. I have a preference, but I think either way it would work--and some of these "national" units would eventually spread out (like engineer units), be rendered obsolete/aren't very useful to begin with (skirmisher cavalry), or might rise/fall depending on how the game goes (if the German states just spend the next 30 years sucking out loud in combat, do they really deserve an infantry bonus?)

[Galveston Bay]

FWIW, I would rather not have the individual country bonuses (beyond special characters coming out), but that would require a larger unit list than the truncated one above. Not quite as long as as the original--I'm probably going to cut Light Infantry entirely, say--but large enough to include an "engineer" brigade (basically combined the old Siege and Pontoon units into a generic unit that is half as good as both those things), militia cavalry, etc. I don't like the historical determinism element that comes with national bonuses, but I do think it's a way to make each individual nation less complicated--instead of everyone having to worry about all these extra unit types, each country only has at most one to worry about.

Basically, it comes down to if everyone wants to shoulder the same burdens, or if we'd rather keep some of the complexity but spread it out. I have a preference, but I think either way it would work--and some of these "national" units would eventually spread out (like engineer units), be rendered obsolete/aren't very useful to begin with (skirmisher cavalry), or might rise/fall depending on how the game goes (if the German states just spend the next 30 years sucking out loud in combat, do they really deserve an infantry bonus?)

Pondering some of that myself .... but really if the Great Captains show up routinely on schedule for whoever gets them, that seems reasonable. I really want my engineer unit, as the French were masters of it in this timeframe (West Point was inspired by them for starters), while militia cavalry should be available at least for this century (they have their problems though, good a looting and harassment, not so good in a fight against regular cavalry).

The engineer is the answer to all of those fortified cities and fortresses that litter the map in OTL. Just limit it to one per nation and keep the cost where it was. They still take a season to bring about a result (thus mimicking the historical results).

Some of the player nations are hard to determine as to what kind of special national unit they would get. So I guess I think it would be fair to drop that, but allow the engineer brigade to remain as a limited availability unit, and only available in wartime (you have to build it or upgrade a garrison unit after the war starts and you only can buy one. It cannot be replaced if eliminated in combat for the duration of the war or 10 years during that war, it takes a long time to train those kind of skilled specialists)

I don't want to play "Diplomacy" (the game). Besides, while great for representing Europe, it would do a poor job representing the outsized effect small armies had in the various colonial wars of the period.

[Galveston Bay]

I think I'm a fan of keeping historical characters as is (eg. Napoleon still is a good general, Nelson is still a good admiral, etc.) simply because it seems that historical patterns won't necessarily change a person's biology or how they were raised. We could balance it by giving the Mod's the power to add additional generals as needed (and, I would note, we have a tendency to kill off good generals faster than in RL).

In terms of individual units, I'm not sure how much we want to formalize said rules, especially since it starts to get tricky outside of the top few countries. Of course Britain is a seafaring nation, but what special bonus do we give Denmark? I could also see this leading to frustration, like people being annoyed at English bonuses tipping the scales in battle constantly.

I think it'd be simpler to keep historical characters as is, and only award roll/power bonuses in the matter of ties or to keep balance.

We study the Great Captains of war for a reason. They have an outsized effect. Some nations won't see one however if we just stick to the historical (the Dutch already had theirs in previous century for example). So maybe the occasional random assignment of one to a nation that did not historically get one (with a fictional name of course), which with the character creation rules, basically allows to happen anyway.

[Vas Pokhoronim]

I don't want to play "Diplomacy" (the game).

Heh.

See, in all honesty, I would much, much, much rather play Diplomacy than World in Flames - or even Axis and Allies . . .

Nevertheless, I'm more optimistic now about than I was earlier about some reasonably satisfactory outcome being reached by next week.

[Haneastic]

My suggestion:
-Eliminate light infantry: it seems like most European powers significantly differentiated between Infantry/Light Infantry
-bring back garrisons: it allows powers to have larger armies that can simply be used to guard home during peacetime.
-Allow one engineer unit per nation: that way we have some unit that handles sieges/river crossings

You could also allow players to designate militia as either cavalry or infantry (since we're assuming it's locals fronting their own gun/horse, the cost should be similar)

After that I think the rules looks pretty solid to me

[TLS]

So after a week or so of active discussion on rule changes, I'd like to have this formalized ASAP so we can be on schedule for game start next week. I know that a few people have yet to weigh in, but based on the current suggestions here's what I'm proposing--I'm still amenable to some changes, but would be happy to play the game under this revised set. To reduce clutter I just completely removed units which are removed, rather than marking them "removed". If a rule or stat isn't mentioned in this list, assume it is unchanged--I included all units below, but not every minute detail of repairing, income, combat rules etc that are unchanged.

Proposed New Rules

Manpower

Your nation is limited to 3% of its population under active-duty arms, and 7% under reserve. Included in reserves are: Militia, garrisons, supply and building facilities, and fortresses.

There is a special rule for trading companies--their ships draw 50% of their manpower from the home country, 50% from elsewhere. This represents the high percentage of third country sailors on these company vessels historically.

Ground Units

Mobile Units

Infantry battalion- 1,000 men, combat 1, move 3, cost 1, maintenance .1

Cavalry regiment – 1,000 men, combat 1, move 4, cost 2, maintenance .25

Infantry brigade- consists of 4 battalions armed with flintlock muskets, plus 4 batteries of field artillery (so roughly 16-24 cannons).  Manpower 2,500. Combat 4, Movement 1, Cost 4 maintenance .5

Cavalry brigade- Horses kill people. Manpower 2,500.
cost 4, maintenance 1, combat 3, movement 3

Militia Infantry Brigade- but generally performs poorly if forced to fight in line of battle.  Adequate for occupying ground, patrolling and fighting Native Militia and Light Infantry.  Can operate in wilderness areas without attrition penalty.  Manpower 2,500. Cost 1, maintenance .10, combat 1, movement 2.  Militia brigades cannot leave their home region or homeland at any time.

Militia Cavalry Brigade - Same operational restrictions as militia infantry. Manpower 2,500. cost 2, maintenance .25, combat 1 (halved if fighting anyone other than militia or natives), movement 3.

Preexisting militia can be upgraded to their regular equivalent if the difference in cost is covered, this process takes 1 season beyond the season they are raised to complete.

Engineer Brigade - a brigade sized unit equipped with sappers for siege work, bridging equipment, boats and other equipment. Allows field armies to cross rivers without penalty and attack across them with the penalty reduced by 50%. Only one per nation, if destroyed takes 10 years to rebuild. Manpower 2,500. Cost 5, maintenance 3, combat 0, movement 1, allows all Infantry and Light Infantry units in a field army to treat forts and fortresses as field units after 2 seasons.

Variants
Native light infantry and cavalry are free to raise, but cannot remain mobilized for more than one season each year.  They suffers penalties if forced to fight against Infantry, Light Infantry and any cavalry or dragoon unit in a pitched battle.  

Colonial units- Specify if a unit consists of locals or imported soldiers. Colonial units need to be based off of the white population of the colony, though this can be broadened to include the mixed population if justified by game actions. This will influence decisions in battle, morale, etc, at moderator discretion. For trading companies, recruiting additional sepoys above the directly administered population is like recruiting mercenaries--make an ask of the moderator.

Fortifications

Garrison brigade- actually consists of small garrisons and weak forts to establish control over an area. If attacked by field forces, becomes a weak combat unit with a combat rating of 1, movement of 2 Manpower 2,500. cost 3, maintenance .25

Fortified Cities- all OLD WORLD cities are fortified.

Fortress- in addition to being more powerful forts, these bastions also act as supply bases for armies, mobilization centers and depots.  Treated as an infantry brigade for cost and maintenance cost, but cannot move, and if captured are permanently eliminated and have to be rebuilt.  Also acts as a supply source for field armies that can trace a supply line by road or waterway to them.  cost 4, maintenance .5, acts as a depot, can be built alongside or inside a fortified city (making it really strongly fortified)

Building times:
Infantry, Cavalry require 2 seasons to build and train (treat as militia until then)
Fortresses require 2 years to build and equip
Militia can be used the same season they are raised and equipped

Logistical Units
Depots - cost 2 point to build, free to maintain.  These never move, and represent  the recruiting grounds, barracks and and training grounds for several regiments of troops so can train up to 1 brigade at a time. Countries are limited to one per 500,000, with a minimum of one allowed for countries below that threshold--this includes colonies with populations above 35,000 (the minimum population to support 1 infantry battalion).

Base- this is the administrative center of a field army and where supplies are gathered to be sent to the army, as well as were communications from home are received and transmitted further on to the field commander.   A base must be a city or fortress within reasonable distance (as defined by common sense and the referee) but typically is within 300 miles of the army it is supporting.  You will want to leave a garrison behind to guard your base.  It costs 2 point to establish a base unless it is a fortress (those have already been paid for and are designed for this purpose)

Naval Units

Combat Ships:

Naming Not Required: If you guys think it's too much of a hassle to have to name all your ships, I don't care. Don't do it. Do it if you want to.

Heavy BatRon - consist of 1 - 1st rate and 2 - 2nd rate ships and between them these 3 ships carry more and heavier artillery than most field armies. Construction time is very lengthy, at 10 years, but these ships can last centuries if properly maintained. Cost 15, maintenance 1.5, Naval combat rating 7, range 5, speed 1, 2,500 men

BatRon – consist of 2 - 3rd rate and 2- 4th rate ships. Construction is lengthy, at 6 years, but these ships can last decades if properly maintained. Cost 9, maintenance .75, Naval combat rating 5, range 6, speed 2 2,500 men

CruRon- consist of 1 - 5th rate and 3 - 6th rate frigates. Construction is lengthy, at 4 years, but these ships too can last decades, and heavy 5th rate frigates can last centuries as well. Fast, and heavily armed, but lack the durability of the heavier ships of the line. Cost 4.5, maintenance .5, naval combat rating 3, range 8, speed 3 2,500 men

PatRon- consist of 12 Sloops and Brigs. Construction is relatively fast, at 2 years, and these ships can be readily converted from merchant ships during wartime as well. They are also ideal pirate vessels, as they are manueverable, and can operate in shallow water as well. These ships are not particularly durable, a couple of decades is the usual working life. Cost 2, maintenance .25, naval combat rating 1, range 8, speed 3 2,500 men

Commerce Vessels

Commercial flotilla –  50 ships the size of frigates, sloops and brigs.  All merchant ships of this era are armed and their crews trained to fight but not as effectively as naval crews and morale is generally far weaker than trained naval personnel as well.  Build time is 2 years, cost is 3, maintenance is free but it costs .25 points to use a merchant flotilla as a transport which takes them out of merchant service for that game year. Commercial flotillas provide .25 income when not mobilized. A merchant flotilla can carry 2 light infantry or 1 other type of brigade.  Combat rating 1 (defense only), range 5, speed 1.

Converting commercial shipping into warships is not advisable. The referee will give you specifics on that should you desire, but it is not advisable as any conversion is subject to a +1 to hit by purpose built warships, and is not as fast or maneuverable usually as a purpose built warship of the same size. They are built for endurance and cargo space, not durability and handling.  They also can carry only light guns, as their gun decks are not built up enough to handle heavier ordinance.  

Nations cannot have more than 3 Commercial Flotillas per port. Entrepots can support up to 10 additional commercial flotillas

Naval Facilities

cannot be moved once constructed, and can be destroyed by combat action.  

Ports - any port can repair any size ships, but can only build PatRons and commercial shipping. No maintenance cost is required.

Naval Yards – large facilities that can build any size ship or repair any size ship.  They have a work force of 10,000 military and civilian employees, and also serve as centers of administration.  Naval yards must be built in a port. It takes 10 years to build a naval yard, which must first start as a naval station (so 12 years total).  Cost is 25 points.  maintenance .5

Naval Factories – very large facilities that can build any size ship or repair any size ship in half the time of a naval yard.  These huge facilities must be built in a port, and require 50 years to build.  It takes 150 points to build a Naval Factory. As of game start, the only cities with the naval acumen to build them are London and Rotterdam.   These facilities employ 50,000 civilian and military workers.  Maintenance 3

Shipbuilding and Repair

A port can repair any 10 maintenance points of naval or merchant unit, and can build 2 points of shipping at a time.

Laying up ships

This was common practice, but limited to CruRons and BatRons, as the lighter ships simply rot away to quickly to make it worth while and are cheap to build.

Ships laid up have 10% maintenance cost. To activate costs double maintenance for that year, plus another 50% for every 10 years they are laid up. Maximum length a ship can be laid up is 20 years for CruRons, 50 years for BatRons and Heavy BatRons.

It takes 1 season to make them operational, 2 seasons if laid up more than 10 years, and 1 year if laid up longer than that. This includes repairs and crewing them.

This counts as new construction for purposes of naval yards and naval factories (so limits apply, there are only so many slips available.

Economic Rules

Income
Slaving income is no longer contingent upon establishing loops. It's just a single resource. I will re-allocate.

Financial centers-- Any country can take out up to 5 points in loans per year, up to 15 points total. A country with a financial center in it can take 10 points per year, up to 30. Interest rates will be decided by credit. The FC generates 1 point per year regardless, to signify taxation on private loans.

Wartime taxation will no longer come with a set % chance of uprisings, mod will take into account non-quantifiable factors when deciding when the population has had too much.

Commerce is now only one type of unit, worth .5, but you can build 3 per port.

Supply Rules

On further thought, I actually don't think the supply rules necessarily need streamlining. They look complicated, but they really only become a hassle once your units are out of supply--but that is 1) primarily a problem for me having to do more calculations and 2) I will warn you when that's about to happen. IIRC in the last game we only had a few instances where armies were running about out of supply--it's fairly difficult to do so unless you're trying something crazy like a Napoleon into Russia fiasco.

Special Rules

Not worth the hassle in removing them now that they've been allocated, and I want to keep transparency as to why if Spain and the Savoyards are both trying to convince an NPC to fight one another, why the NPC picks one over the other even if given essentially the same rule.

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