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Lisbon Conference 1786

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Post by Ottoman Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:09 pm

January 1786

The Portuguese open the conference to discuss claims on Pacific Northwest between Russia, Great Britain and Spain.

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Post by Kilani Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:31 pm

Pedro Pablo Abarca de Bolea, Spanish diplomat to France, is asked to travel to Lisbon to head up negotiations. He lays out that Spain has long had claims on the region, dating from as long ago as the 16th century - indeed, those claims were renewed by exploratory expeditions as recently as 1774, 1775, and 1776, which pre-date the explorations of the esteemed Cook; Spain has also establish trading posts in the area at Santa Cruz de Nuca and Neah Bay.

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Post by Ottoman Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:46 pm

The Russian envoy Reichsgraf Otto Magnus von Stackelberg points out that Russia has build a number of trading post in the following region. He pulls out a map showing the location of the Russian outpost in Pacific Northwest region.

Unalaska, Alaska – 1774.
Three Saints Bay, Alaska – 1784.
Fort St. George in Kasilof, Alaska – 1785


He notes by having Spain or Britain exclusive claims to the region, it will impact Russian traders ability to travel up and down the coast for the fur trade.


Last edited by Ottoman on Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Galveston Bay Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:19 am

The new British Secretary of State, William Grenville, 1st Baron Grenville, arrives last but with considerable documentation and Captain Cook in tow as well.

Cooks logs show that there was no Spanish presence on Nootka Island at the time of his visit, confirmed by observations, and that the British claim thus predates the Spanish claims.   At least those claims that had been made actually available for international inspection up to this point.  

Britain announces it is willing to fully recognize Russian claims to Alaska.  

Britain does however provide records from Sir Francis Drake's voyage in the 1580s including his lengthy stay in New Albion (California) to show that British presence on the Pacific Coast of North America is longstanding.   Indeed it notes that Spanish presence in California is far more recent than that of Drake's visit.

As there is over 350 miles from the Spanish settlement at San Francisco to the very southern edge of what the British Crown is claiming, the British claims seem reasonable and no threat to the Spanish colony.  Particularly as distance in terms of travel time to the Pacific Coast of North America are in months, no matter from European Russia, the British Isles or even Mexico City.

However, as the Spanish settlement occurred nearly at the same time (but after) Cooks visit there, the British Hudson Bay Company is willing to buy out the Spanish investment made thus far.
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Post by Kilani Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:51 am

Abarca also has charts and logbooks, most notably from the expeditions of Juan José Pérez Hernández and Juan Francisco de la Bodega y Quadra, both of whom charted and reached the area in 1774 and 1775, as well as further expeditions by Bodega y Quadra in 1776, 1777, and 1778. Hernández reached 49.6° north latitude and his logbooks record that he traded with the local native population in 1774.

Hernández unfortunately died during Bodega y Quadra's expedition of illness; Bodega y Quadra's first expedition reached 59° north latitude (somewhere in Alaska) and he landed and claimed the coast for Spain on his return journey. Further, Spanish trading posts were established in 1778 at Santa Cruz de Nuca and then at Neah Bay (called by the Spanish Bahía de Gálvez) in 1780.

To date, the Spanish have not interfered with navigation of any English vessels in the area (indeed, they have been under strict instructions to no such thing) - nor have  they any quarrel with the Russian settlements in Alaska. They are prepared to sign a treaty between all three parties guaranteeing all access to the fur trade in the area and providing that all three nations will work in cooperation to maintain that freedom of use and guaranteeing mutual cooperation against any third party that attempts to infringe.

Abarca proposes that the Spanish Crown will forfeit its trading post and fort located at Santa Cruz de Nuca (Yuquot, BC) to the Hudson Bay Company without payment and will forego claims to Nootka Island and points north of the Strait of Juan de Fuca, provided the British are willing to acknowledge and recognize Spanish claims south of the strait; the Spanish will maintain their trading post at Neah Bay. In this way, all three nations can maintain their presence in the lucrative trading area.

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Post by Galveston Bay Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:40 pm

The British propose the following:
1.  Spain retains its fort and trading posts but refrain from building additional ones for 10 years
2.  Britain and Russia each place a fort and 2 trading posts in the region, with Britain choosing the RL site of Seattle and Vancouver, the Russians also getting 2 locations but not within 100 miles of British or Spanish places..
3.  The British, Russian and Spanish governments all sponsor expeditions to thoroughly chart and the area between San Francisco Bay and the Aleutian Islands (Russians taking the north, the Spanish the south, and the British the middle).  All three governments then share and compare charts and maps.
4.  The free trapping and trading proposal for the area is very acceptable
5.  That this entire region and issue be revisited in 10 years after it has been mapped (above).
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Post by Kilani Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:02 pm

Abarca is generally willing to pledge foregoing additional settlements in the area around Nootka and Vancouver and north of the Strait; however, he is authorized to inform both the Russians and the British that the Spanish planned to establish an outpost at the mouth of the Rio de San Roque / Entrada de Hezeta (rl Columbia River) and explore that bay and tributaries and that he assumes said outpost would be grandfathered in since, as far as he is aware, said expedition is already underway and any letter of recall would likely not reach them until 1786 - or even later, considering such a letter would need to cross the Atlantic, Mexico, and then be sent north by ship.

While he finds the substance of the British proposal agreeable (on the understanding that Spain would not be relinquishing its claims) and "kicking the can" down the road a decade isn't the worst conclusion, Abarca would prefer to settle the issue conclusively by drawing the border at the Strait and thus avoiding any misunderstandings or tensions in the future.

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Post by Ottoman Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:14 pm

The Russians are amenable to the British terms.

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Post by Galveston Bay Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:17 pm

The British are willing to recognize the Spanish expedition and planned outpost. In exchange the British and Russians should be allowed to add another trading post each

British chooses RL Prince Rupert (BC) for a third trading post
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Post by Kilani Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:48 pm

Abarca finds this agreeable and hopes that this issue can be resolved more permanently in ten years time; with that said, he is ready to affix his signature to the Treaty of Lisbon (or Treat of Nutca, depending), provided that the limitation on building new trading posts (beyond the noted three) likewise extends to the British and Russians.

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Post by Galveston Bay Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:54 pm

The British suggest it be called the Treaty of Nootka Sound, and also are ready to sign
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Post by Galveston Bay Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:12 pm

As a result of the Gibraltar Treaty, the Nookta Sound Treaty is revised
1.  Spain gives up claims in the Pacific Northwest north of the 46th Parallel /  Rio de San Roque and promises to withdraw its trading posts north of that
2.  Britain promises to evacuate Gibraltar and return it to Spain by the end of 1786


Last edited by Galveston Bay on Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Kilani Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:19 pm

There is one correction; it would be the Rio de San Roque and the 46th parallel (rl Oregon/Washington border) as the northern border.

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